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Welcome to the CityCenter Condo Deposit Group Forum

The group's goals include: (1) Creating a productive discussion forum
(2) Being a resource where owner's can get information on the CityCenter project
(3) Provide a mechanism to present a unified voice of the buyers to the seller
All of the other key stakeholders involved in CityCenter have a voice - the bondholders, the shareholders, management, etc. To date, the buyers who represent billions of dollars in committments have yet to have a seat at the table. This group seeks to change that and come to a win-win solution with MGM.

Monday, July 6, 2009

Next - We need to figure out what market value for the units is


Anonymous said...

The market value is probably about 60-70% lower than what many paid for. Or figure about $400-410 per SF.

Anonymous said...

This group just seems like a bunch of people who are angry that they made a bad investment decision. If the situation was in reverse, and your condo's went up in value by 50%, would you think it would be ok for the owner to ask you for more money than the agreed upon price at the time of your deposit? This is lunacy.

Anonymous said...

The realty of the situation is that more than half of the current sales will not close at the current prices. If MGM has any hope of selling the remaining units, then they will need to adjust the sales price. Why not offer that to the current owners whose money MGM has used to get loans for the past 2 years? It would also help close these pre-sold units and make the project viable.

They could also move the current purchasers of Vdara to the Veer project (at a lower price) and use Vdara as yearly rentals. This help recoup MGM's investment and sell the rest of Veer. THIS STRATEGY COULD SAVE CITY CENTER!

Anonymous said...

Fact or Fiction -
Rumor is Bobby Baldwin, has not purchased any of the condos?

Anonymous said...

My thought is MGM does offer a price adjustment in September (25%? maybe 30?)....As is---they have our 20% deposit but we dont have to close. An adjustment is a good business move on their part. As per giving deposits back, i dont see them doing that nor should they.

Anonymous said...

Hopefully MGM doesn't want to burn off their players, friends and family. Tough for us to gamble in their casinos when we aren't in our condos because we didnt close. Just makes sense for a price adjustment and some goodwill. MGM will make it back and more in the long haul if the project sells (which it wont without a price break)...

Anonymous said...

As to the 20% deposit, as per the purchase contract (and Nevada law), they are only entitled to retain 15% and must return the other 5% to defaulting condo buyers.

Anonymous said...

They are not taking off 60% so stop dreaming and venting. I want money off also and i think they will make a price adjustment to keep the peace as well as close the units. Question is how much? My guess-- more than 10% (too nominal), less than 40%... Just a guess... they would be smart to make it a rougher decision to walk from our deposits. Now it is easy--you walk and if you really want it you buy back after it tanks..Hope it doesnt come to that.

mypoppop said...

When is MGM going to give the Vdara buyers details of the Rental Program? I bought a unit for investment and occasional use; not to live year round.

David said...

For the Vdara units, it would be in MGM's interest to offer a financing option where 100% of the room revenue over a 10 year period goes to operating expenses, then interest and principle with a balloon payment for the remaining principle coming due in 10 years. This would let owners close without a discount and some hope of getting back their investment. It would also establish a bottom in the market.

Anonymous said...

Just read this on a message board:

News for 'MGM' - (MGM Plans To Cut Condo Prices After House Values Dropped (MGM))

Jul 31, 2009 (SmarTrend(R) News Watch via COMTEX) -- 7/31/2009 - MGM Mirage
(NYSE:MGM) plans to cut the price of condominiums that have already been sold in
order to appease buyers after housing values have dropped , according to CEO Jim
Murren. The casino operator is reappraising the condominiums and talking to
banks in order to help buyers arrange financing for completing purchases. Murren
said the company plans to offer more details in the fall. He also said, "There's
no debate that the market has fallen dramatically in pricing since we initially
priced these units," and that customers are asking for "a total marketing
strategy for them, which includes financing." Buyers who have put down deposits
for the condominiums have had trouble obtaining mortgages and many are concerned
with paying the initial agreed-to price due to the drop in home values.

Write to Chip Brian at

Has anybody heard directly from MGM on this in advance?

mypoppop said...

Bloomberg is reporting that MGM will reprice the condos. It will be " new market price" plus the 20 percent we have deposited.

They also report that MGM is talking to banks to arrange financing. I have talked to banks about financing. The banks are looking at 60% maximum Loan to Value.

The appraisal will be the most important number in my decision to walk or buy.

Anonymous said...

Last post was a bit confusing? Did you mean the new market price MINUS out 20%? If it is plus our deposit that is obviously much less good news. (IE. as you wrote it--- $1M for the orig price and gave 200K down... Now they mark it to 600K PLUS deposit means 800K or net 20% off... Is that what you are hearing?same as they mark it to 800K and credit the deposit... Net due 600K in the example...

Anonymous said...

banks looking for 40% down is harsh... And No, no one has heard from MGM direct on price adjustments. That will be in September... Lets hope they make it a good one so we all don't have to walk.

Anonymous said...

I just came back from a 5 day trip to Vegas and visited the City Center sales people as well as other high end condo projects regarding availability and prices.

Surprisingly, the City Center folks were almost arrogant when speaking about the Vegas real estate market that is clearly depressed now. They did mention a possible discount in price but assured that it would still keep City Center prices well above those in the current Vegas market for luxury condos.

While i do like the idea of City Center, i can say that my cash is seen as king everywhere BUT at City Center, and the reality of the market forces me to look elsewhere.

As an occasional visitor to Vegas (3-4 times per year) there is no way i would ever pay 30 to 50% above market rates just to say my place is at the City Center.

Sky and other high end buildings are just down the street on the strip and only a $5 to $10 cab ride to any other other strip Hotel/Casino/Shopping areas.

MGM needs to wake up and become competitive, or else the may see their lenders sell their project at whatever the market will several other Vegas projects have realized in the past 12+ months.

I wish you folks who bought early the best of may need it soon.

Anonymous said...

Don't worry.. Thwe sales people know zero of what's going on. Less than zero. They are putting on their happy face and rightfully so-- imgine if they were saying the opposit and the units are not worth the $...Honestly, irrelevant if they were cocky or not. They ar e probably right that city center should not be discounted exactly what the market is. It is a quality product in the BEST location. When we own it (if) it should appreciate much faster than the others as well. Hell, NO ONE is living at Trumps. You couldnt give me that unit. Must be $250 a square foot---tops! That said, if the market fell 50% and they gave us 35% off to keep the peace and make us close-- i am doing the jig... 35% is a good good number. 40% awesome. Any more than 40 and you guys are dreaming... I don't see it...

Anonymous said...

Answer to person who commented on july 6, 616pm.
That is not the point. The values of condos in las vegas have gone down by about 50 to 60 per cent since the 2007 peak. This is a highly unusual circumstance, that is unprecentded in most of our lifetimes.
All of us who put up deposits, can just walk away; and the buildings would sit empty. Why? Because in todays market nobody will step up and buy at the prices we signed up for in 2007.
Therefore, if city center wants to sell the condos, they would have to lower their prices in order to attract new buyers. Which means lowering the prices by about 50%. In the alternative they could let the existing buyers walk away, keep the buyer deposits, not lower the prices and sit there with a bunch of empty buildings.
In the end the market conditions will force them to lower the prices sooner or later, so why not lower them now and complete the sales with the existing buyers.
This is good business sense, because it generates monthly homeowner association revenues, positive media news, millions of dollars with which to lower their debt, traffic in the retail area and mgm casinos and goodwill with people who frequent the mgm mirage casinos. They went to alot of trouble, expense and time consumed to get and find the existing buyers--so why let them walk away.
They cannot be replaced with buyers at the old 2007 prices.

Obviously, the july 6th commenter has never been in business or been in a business class, because if he/she had then they would know one of the first principles of business: if something is not selling--then you must lower the price to the level where it will sell. And if you dont, then you will be looking for a bankruptcy lawyer.

Anonymous said...

wah wah wah

I put a deposit on a car yesterday and today the sticker price is 50% off yesterday

wah wah wah

I signed a contract. Which is legally binding.

wah wah wah

I made a bad decision to invest

wah wah wah

To August 26, 2009 10:00 AM, you're an idiot: they'll take your deposit when you walk away. But the buildings won't sit empty will they? No. Coz people like me will pull a fraction of their cash reserves out of the market and buy ten units for investment purposes.

You can stay at one if you like - I'll give you a decent weekly rate.

wah wah wah

Anonymous said...

For all the people that put in a deposit and can afford the monthly payment on their, you're in luck. For those people who do not have at least 20% to put as down payment for a unit, good luck getting one at City Center.

Anonymous said...


So you could to pull “a fraction of your cash reserves out of the market and buy ten units for investment purposes”, eh?

Very impressive!!

You must be a real high-profile kind of guy, a real “player”, so why remain anonymous?? What’s preventing you from pulling that small fraction out of your massive cash reserves so that you can buy your ten units, say, tomorrow??

Put your money where your mouth is: post your name, buy your ten units in CityCenter, and identify which units you bought, so that all of the “crybabies” on this board can verify your closings on the County Assessor’s website.

Unless/until you can do that, just STFU and peck away at your keyboard in a drunken stupor from the stench of your double-wide in Boulder City, OK???

Manu said...

Vdara prices have been reduced by 30%, I received a call from citycenter management and they confirmed me the price reduction.

Anonymous said...

Manu I also have a deposit on a unit at Vdara, lets talk my emil is

Anonymous said...

If anyone else is interested in communicating you may email also. It seems this site is not getting the job done.

Anonymous said...

The Las vegas review Journal, feb20th,2010. MGM must realize the fact that the real estate market has dropped 50%. This article clearly is proof of that: "Turnberry Towers has consistently
been recognized as one of the best designed high-rise collections in the United States. Not only are we thrilled to offer these luxurious residences at affordable prices, we are proud to be one of the few who can also offer financing in this market."

According to Singler, many high-rise projects in the United States cannot offer financing because all sales proceeds are used to pay off the construction loan; however, since Turnberry Towers' construction loan has already been paid in full, traditional financing is now being offered to qualified buyers. At Turnberry Towers, buyers have the opportunity to apply for a 30-year fixed rate loan with competitive interest rates.

"There are no tricks or hidden charges to the buyer," Singler said. "We are offering conventional financing at a time where most developments require all cash up front."

Four model homes are available for preview at Turnberry Towers, ranging from 814 to 1,658 square feet. The homes are offered with up to three bedrooms and up to 2½ baths. While every home at Turnberry Towers has at least one balcony, several offer multiple balconies with different views.

"Our homes offer breath-taking vantage points of the Las Vegas Strip and surrounding mountain ranges," Singler said.

Pricing at Turnberry Towers starts in the $200,000s.

"These units have been discounted up to 50 percent from their original prices just two years ago," Singler said.

"For example, a three-bedroom home in 2007 was listed at $1.2 million. Today we are offering the same unit at $675,000."

Turnberry Towers is located on a 10-acre lot that overlooks the Las Vegas Strip and the Spring Mountain ranges. Beyond security-guarded gates, residents have access to valet service, concierge, business center, and 24-hour security services. Free Wi-Fi is provided in each tower's main lobby, social room and pool areas. Residents also have access to private tennis courts, two resort-style pools with year-round heated spas, barbecue grills, two putting greens, fenced dog parks, state-of-the-art fitness center and climate-controlled individual storage rooms.

The sales office at Turnberry Towers is open from 9 a.m.-5:30 p.m. Monday-Friday and from 10 a.m.-4 p.m. Saturday and Sunday.

The sales office is located at 222 Karen Ave. From the Las Vegas Strip, take Las Vegas Boulevard heading north towards Sahara Avenue. Then head east on Sahara and south on Paradise Road. On the left is Turnberry Towers. Head east (left) on Karen and enter the Turnberry Towers gate on the left. The guard at the gate house will provide directions to the sales office located in the West Tower."